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View Full Version : Boston Balance Sunday -- my take


amybatt
04-07-2008, 10:44 AM
A quick summary of my Boston Balance experience yesterday (if anyone was there Fri/Sat, I’d love to hear what I missed!)

8:00 Heart Rate Training, Schedule, What Next? with Jennifer Ward. This started with a 20 min “poor man’s LT test”. We brought heart rate to 65% and then added 5 bpm every minute until we felt fatigue start to set in, then we held it. Jennifer said this is “fairly close” to what you’d get if you did the “real” test.

The lecture was about setting up a periodization program for students based on the minutes per week they have to work out. This was a good group because a few people challenged her on the 65-75% range for endurance rides and that periodization isn’t necessarily right for people coming to the gym only 1-3 times a week. Both Jennifer and (later) Josh said that yes, MDA is now saying 80% for endurance but we still say 75% because if you give people 80% they’re going to take it and go all the way with it. Jennifer had spreadsheets to help you calculate the number of minutes that should be spent in each zone based on how much time you have to exercise. Even seeing that, it didn’t convince me that I should be telling the soccer mom whose only exercise is my class twice a week that she needs to spend 96 of those 120 minutes in endurance. I don’t think the rest of the group was sold on that either. The information was really good, but I still don’t think periodization is really practical for my classes’ demographic. (As a side note, Jennifer mentioned that HRMs actually grossly underestimate calories burned. I thought cardio machines grossly overstated them and a HRM was more accurate….what are the thoughts here on this?)

10:00 Form is Fitting with Michael Ferrante. How and why form goes wrong, what to look for, how to correct it. He said he’d seen some hellacious form over the weekend and was going to call us out on it in the ride. The ride was 40 minutes and went through all the movements/ hand positions. I think everyone was really on their best behavior here, but he did go around and correct a few people which was good but also found one guy who had a really good STC and he made him demo that. It was unreal. I appreciated that while the purpose of the ride was just to review form it still felt like a good workout.

12:00 Endura-Trance with Josh Taylor. This was taught as true endurance (65-75% HR) as Jen had discussed earlier, but with a couple allowances to go to 80%, keep it under control and bring it back pretty quickly. It was mostly seated which I love but I found the challenge was keeping the HR within the window. I’d never done that for so long before. The music was great and it was a good ride to get into your zone with and just let it go.

2:00 Seamless Profile Design with Michael Ferrante. This class was all about the ride. There wasn’t too much to actually lecture on, but he showed us by doing. There was a 12 min warmup, 6 mins of criterium riding (breaking into the corners using resistance and powering out of them, very very cool) and then 20 minutes on the hills, back to the “challenging” flat and then cooldown. I think this was my favorite ride and the type I’d be most comfortable doing myself.

4:00 212-Degrees with Josh Taylor. I have to admit, I bailed on this one. Michael was talking about fatigue in the previous class and how you're supposed to listen to your body and he said this was a ride with 212 jumps and my legs just seized up on the spot and said no. I think if it was anything other than jumps I would have tried it, but there was just no way.

My take-aways from the weekend:
-- Longer, slower warm-ups. I have a tendency to start with upbeat and fast, and I found I had a better ride if I started with a nice slow pedal and built it up over 10 min+. Josh’s ride on Thursday night actually started from a dead stop, with a slow build.
-- Are you carrying too much body weight on the handlebars? Put palm-sides UP on the handlebars and move your body weight back until that is not unbearably painful on the tops of your hands. Then flip your hands back over into your grip….nice, you’re right where you should be. (Reminder that you shouldn’t be riding seriously with palms up, this is just a test!)
-- Are you not using enough resistance on the flat? Demo the bike with no resistance on the wheel. From off the bike, use your foot to get pedals going and let them fly…and fly and fly and fly. Show the class that once you get the momentum going, that wheel will keep going with or without you. Slowly add resistance to slow wheel down, now you need to actually push it to keep it going. Make every pedal stroke count on the flat, every circle around pushes the wheel. Don’t let the wheel take you for a ride.
-- Nice refresher for me on the cadences of hills and flats, which was in Michael’s form class. I like faster hills anyway, it’s good be reminded that there really isn’t a slow (less than 60 rpm) slog uphill, which my classes tend to do way too often whether I want them to or not.
-- Pointy toe pedal stroke….get them to focus on kicking a bulls-eye just below the water bottle holder as they come over the top of the pedal stroke. It seemed to work in correcting a guy near me.

There’s more, I know there is…I’m pretty foggy and tired today but am not sore, just really fatigued. As more comes back to me, or as I re-read my notes I’ll post anything I think is helpful.

like2bike
04-07-2008, 11:00 AM
Amy thank you! Very interesting to read this. I like the palm sides up test WRT seeing if you're carrying too much weight in your upper body as you ride. Very nice!

Sounds like a great weekend. And I'm with you--212 jumps after all that other riding would have planted me!

Alexkaboom
04-07-2008, 12:45 PM
Thank you Amy...

I'm scheduled to take Michael's form fitting workshop at WSSC so I'm looking forward to that!

Alex

Pink
04-07-2008, 12:59 PM
Amy, thanks for taking the time to share all this -- good stuff. I could watch Michael Ferrante ride all day -- is there anyone smoother on a bike?

Todd S
04-07-2008, 01:02 PM
The lecture was about setting up a periodization program for students based on the minutes per week they have to work out. This was a good group because a few people challenged her on the 65-75% range for endurance rides and that periodization isn’t necessarily right for people coming to the gym only 1-3 times a week. Both Jennifer and (later) Josh said that yes, MDA is now saying 80% for endurance but we still say 75% because if you give people 80% they’re going to take it and go all the way with it. Jennifer had spreadsheets to help you calculate the number of minutes that should be spent in each zone based on how much time you have to exercise. Even seeing that, it didn’t convince me that I should be telling the soccer mom whose only exercise is my class twice a week that she needs to spend 96 of those 120 minutes in endurance. I don’t think the rest of the group was sold on that either. The information was really good, but I still don’t think periodization is really practical for my classes’ demographic. (As a side note, Jennifer mentioned that HRMs actually grossly underestimate calories burned. I thought cardio machines grossly overstated them and a HRM was more accurate….what are the thoughts here on this?)

<<sigh>>

Cheeze
04-07-2008, 01:24 PM
Amy - who was this Periodization directed at and/or what was the ultimate training goal or event?? And ......... how much time until the event or until the goal had to be reached?

Cheeze

EuroD
04-07-2008, 01:37 PM
Thanks from me too, Amy. I like the palms upwards test, which I think I'll get them to do in my classes this week. I hear what you say about starting out with an upbeat piece, I have a propensity to do that as well.

I've tried a couple of times to use something that could be used as a cooldown too, but still has movement in it, and I was actually asked by riders in the class if it was all going to be 'this slow' - they were quite prepared to leave if I'd have said yes. Not that I will bow down to their wishes, I've been striving to get music that builds or can run from track 1 to 2 pretty seamlessly.

amybatt
04-07-2008, 01:42 PM
Amy - who was this Periodization directed at and/or what was the ultimate training goal or event?? And ......... how much time until the event or until the goal had to be reached?


This was meant to be an extension of Spintensity cont. ed. and the 8 week weight loss program, so it was to pick up where those classes left off. She said she thought the Spintensity course didn't go far enough in how to divide up the rider's time. There was no particular goal/event given in the examples, but she says she used it for competitive rowing. To me it just wasn't realistic to use examples of 7 or 9 or more hours of workout time a week, my students don't have that, even I don't have that kind of time! And that's what one of the attendees questioned...what to do with 2 or 3 hours a week.

I could watch Michael Ferrante ride all day -- is there anyone smoother on a bike?

I don't think so....I so enjoy his classes, I'm fortunate in that he's a local MI for me, so I've taken MDA continuing ed with him and some of his own spinning classes. I learn so much from his rides (which is why I just couldn't say no and sit them out!)

Alexkaboom
04-07-2008, 02:56 PM
I'm fortunate in that he's a local MI for me, so I've taken MDA continuing ed with him and some of his own spinning classes

You must be close by to me too...

Alex

amybatt
04-08-2008, 09:46 AM
You must be close by to me too...


I'm on the north shore, if you ever want to ride Monday or Tuesday nights!

Alexkaboom
04-08-2008, 10:14 AM
I'm on the north shore, if you ever want to ride Monday or Tuesday nights!

I teach Tuesday nights but maybe I'll check it out on a Monday!

veespin
04-08-2008, 05:54 PM
You must be close by to me too...

Alex


Might that be close to me also??

Not too sure who's in my neck of the woods yet (or, in whose woods I'm in the neck of)

Viviene

amybatt
04-08-2008, 06:20 PM
I'm 20 mi. north of Boston on the coast. I can be anywhere around Boston in 45 min or less...you're metro west, right vee? You're more than welcome any Mon/Tues at 7:00 too!

tracik
04-08-2008, 08:43 PM
I don't think so....I so enjoy his classes, I'm fortunate in that he's a local MI for me, so I've taken MDA continuing ed with him and some of his own spinning classes. I learn so much from his rides (which is why I just couldn't say no and sit them out!)


Hey Amy...You don't have any info from Michael's Train Like an Ironman workshop he's presented a few places, do you? I really wanted to catch him at DCAC last year since I've ridden/raced the Lake Placid course a few times but it didn't fit our schedule. I tried to contact him (I think SpinBob) gave me his info) to see if he had a profile or any interesting notes but he either didn't get it or just thought I was some crazy groupie ;)! I'd just love to see an indoor take on that course. Hopefully some day I'll have the chance to do it in person!

Alexkaboom
04-09-2008, 07:41 AM
I'm 20 mi. north of Boston on the coast. I can be anywhere around Boston in 45 min or less...you're metro west, right vee? You're more than welcome any Mon/Tues at 7:00 too!

You're both close but not terribly close, I'm about 30 mins. South of Boston, In the home of the greatest team to ever lose a Super Bowl. :redface:

Alex

amybatt
04-09-2008, 08:41 AM
Hey Amy...You don't have any info from Michael's Train Like an Ironman workshop he's presented a few places, do you?

I actually did an Ironman ride from that workshop at a club he teaches at locally. I can post the profile and (some of) the music when I get home. I might have notes on the workshop somewhere, but I definitely have the profile itself.

Pink
04-09-2008, 08:47 AM
I actually did an Ironman ride from that workshop at a club he teaches at locally. I can post the profile and (some of) the music when I get home. I might have notes on the workshop somewhere, but I definitely have the profile itself.

Oh, that would be much appreciated. I remember someone (Patrick, maybe???) saying this was one of his fave WSSC rides.

tracik
04-09-2008, 03:15 PM
I actually did an Ironman ride from that workshop at a club he teaches at locally. I can post the profile and (some of) the music when I get home. I might have notes on the workshop somewhere, but I definitely have the profile itself.

Thanks so much, Amy! That would be awesome. I saw that he's presenting this as a "part 2" at WSSC (I'm assuming it's a different course than Lake Placid this year), but I really hope I can take the original workshop sometime if he offers it at another conference.

amybatt
04-09-2008, 08:26 PM
Ok here goes...I have only three of the songs he used, so I'll note where his songs and just tell you what I used for others.

This is based on an actual Iron Man course. We work the flats for the first half, then end with 6min "Mama Bear" hill, followed by 12min "Papa Bear" hill, then a flat to the finish. (Explain Mama Bear and Papa Bear concept, second hill is significantly larger/more challenging than the first). Reminder that this is a race, so we'll be fast and efficient, but not psycho crazy with the leg speed.


Warmup (Do It Again - Razor & Guido)
Work normal flat with passes/accelerations past other riders (City of Blinding Lights - U2)
Flat builds to "false flat" which looks flat but it's not...you need to work harder to get wheel around, need to give it a bit more gas, continue passing riders, only now we pass in HP2 because of the added resistance on the flat (Stars Align - Kaskade --this was Michael's)
Mama Bear hill -- seated climb passing riders in the seat and HP2. Cadence is fairly quick 70-80 and moderate resistance (Groovy Feeling - Fluke)
Quick 1m downhill between Mama and Papa to flush out legs
Papa Bear Hill -- Steep and slow SC to start, then alternate SC/STC 1m each x4 (Dilruba - Niyaz 5.30min version)
Continue Papa Bear, only now alternate 2m STC/30s SC x2 (Running up that Hill -- Kate Bush -- this was Michael's, and I have no idea what version, it was longer than any I have!)
Return to flat and work it honestly, good working flat resistance. There's a big surge in the music at the 5m mark, can do a Spinning sprint (load resistance take it out to HP3, bring it back down) (Sorrow Has No Home - Markus Schulz -- this was Michael's)
Cooldown

Pink
04-09-2008, 09:01 PM
Ok here goes...I have only three of the songs he used, so I'll note where his songs and just tell you what I used for others.

This is based on an actual Iron Man course. We work the flats for the first half, then end with 6min "Mama Bear" hill, followed by 12min "Papa Bear" hill, then a flat to the finish. (Explain Mama Bear and Papa Bear concept, second hill is significantly larger/more challenging than the first). Reminder that this is a race, so we'll be fast and efficient, but not psycho crazy with the leg speed.

Warmup (Do It Again - Razor & Guido)
Work normal flat with passes/accelerations past other riders (City of Blinding Lights - U2)
Flat builds to "false flat" which looks flat but it's not...you need to work harder to get wheel around, need to give it a bit more gas, continue passing riders, only now we pass in HP2 because of the added resistance on the flat (Stars Align - Kaskade --this was Michael's)
Mama Bear hill -- seated climb passing riders in the seat and HP2. Cadence is fairly quick 70-80 and moderate resistance (Groovy Feeling - Fluke)
Quick 1m downhill between Mama and Papa to flush out legs
Papa Bear Hill -- Steep and slow SC to start, then alternate SC/STC 1m each x4 (Dilruba - Niyaz 5.30min version)
Continue Papa Bear, only now alternate 2m STC/30s SC x2 (Running up that Hill -- Kate Bush -- this was Michael's, and I have no idea what version, it was longer than any I have!)
Return to flat and work it honestly, good working flat resistance. There's a big surge in the music at the 5m mark, can do a Spinning sprint (load resistance take it out to HP3, bring it back down) (Sorrow Has No Home - Markus Schulz -- this was Michael's)
Cooldown

Hey, Amy, if you need "City of Blinding Lights," I can send it to you. :D:D

tracik
04-09-2008, 10:41 PM
Thanks again for posting this, Amy! I remember Mama and Papa Bear quite well....there's actually a Baby Bear on the course,too. Did he have you guys do the loop once or twice? I ask b/c in the race you repeat the course a second time. Thanks for including the music as well...:)

amybatt
04-10-2008, 08:37 AM
Thanks again for posting this, Amy! I remember Mama and Papa Bear quite well....there's actually a Baby Bear on the course,too. Did he have you guys do the loop once or twice? I ask b/c in the race you repeat the course a second time. Thanks for including the music as well...:)

We only went through once since he designed it as a 40min ride. I ended up stretching it out a bit to make it for my 60 min class.

Just to clarify...the only songs that were Michael's were Kaskade, Markus Schulz and Kate Bush. I had to improvise on the rest because he wasn't allowed to share his playlist last summer. I have all of these and can put them on Spaces Live if you want them. (If you do this ride again with him, I'd love to know what the "real" rest of the songs are!)

like2bike
04-10-2008, 09:46 AM
I have all of these and can put them on Spaces Live if you want them.

Amy would you be so kind? I'd love to put this ride together and test it out! :)

amybatt
04-10-2008, 10:10 AM
Amy would you be so kind? I'd love to put this ride together and test it out! :)

Will do tonight...I'll let you know.

amybatt
04-10-2008, 06:35 PM
There's a folder on my SpacesLive now called IronMan ride. Enjoy!

like2bike
04-10-2008, 07:50 PM
Thank you Aim!!! :)

acupp65
04-11-2008, 05:18 PM
I have a 9:00 min version of this song, Dilruba - Niyaz, will that work?

Angie